So I have a question for Dweezil which may have been asked and answered at some point, but here goes:
My pals Greg Renoff and podcaster/classic rock/VH cover band guitarist Jeff Goebel and other friends of mine have been going down every possible rabbit hole for information on the source or sources from which Edward drew for his famous right hand tapping technique.
We have essentially all agreed that the most solid evidence on balance points toward Harvey Mandel being the person that Edward got his right hand tapping technique from. Reliable eyewitness accounts from George Lynch who attended a Mandel show at the Starwood with Edward where Mandel played his many advanced right hand tapping runs live and a local scenester who actually saw Terry Kilgore teach Ed the technique after he himself was taught the technique by Mandel. Neal Schon is also quoted as saying that Edward specifically told him that he learned the technique from Mandel by way of Terry Kilgore.
It is an almost foregone conclusion that despite Ed’s best attempts to claim that he came up with the idea on his own after seeing Page’s “Heartbreaker” solo open string legato triplets, he almost certainly actually learned the technique wholly from Terry Kilgore who was taught directly by Mandel and the very reliable account of Lynch having attended a Mandel show at the Starwood where Mandel performed many advanced right hand tapping runs which were all over his 1973 solo album ‘Shangrenade’ and which he he’d been playing since 1969.
Another very distinct possibility is that Edward was aware of right hand tapping from seeing and/or hearing Derringer band guitarist Danny Johnson doing advanced right hand tapping runs in Derringer…who also played a great hard rocking live version of “You Really Got Me” well prior to Van Halen’s breakthrough recording and who also played guitar in the band ‘Private Life’ that Edward produced in the late 80s.
My question and the question from my friends to Dweez is this…Did you ever discuss the origins of tapping with Ed as it related to Frank’s pioneering right hand tapping as we see it in this famous clip of “Black Napkins” from 1976 at around the 2:40 mark?
My dad was tapping on the neck with a pick to make what he called "Bagpipe Sounds" starting as far back as 1973. It was a more randomized hyper fast flutter sound within lines. It wasn't uniform like Eruption.
Thanks for that memory! It’s clear from that footage that 1973’s “bagpipe sounds” evolved into something more “uniform” by the time of that 1976 footage. I think I get what he was driving at with “bagpipe” if the tapped note was a very short one that quickly jumped to the next note in the way that notes in bagpipe music can.
It is really interesting that the whole right hand tapping technique was essentially “in the air” for some progressive rock guitarists and forward thinking guitar players in general. I reckon it is obvious that Edward popularized it because he ultimately made great popular music that reached the masses in a way that others didn’t, but the actual technique and the same basic runs were definitely being done by others just as well, especially from Hackett and Mandel.
Thanks David! It was great fun…I’m glad you enjoyed it! Dweezil is great at editing and audio magic to such a degree that he made a simpleton like me sound passable!
Wow! This is awesome! A fantastic resource! Thanks again Allen for sharing all of your materials with us. Many practice hours ahead to look forward to!
Near the end of the episode, I also played one of my favorite variations of the repeating open string licks similar to those in “Eruption”, “Somebody Get Me a Doctor”, “I’m the One” (second solo), “5150” etc. in F# during the “Hot For Teacher” solo. Here is my complete transcription of that solo where you can see exactly how Eddie played that iteration of the lick where he mixed up his straight picking with his normal “single open E picked with the rest legato” patterns with added picked notes at various points in an off-the-cuff way which doesn’t follow his usual non-varying pattern all the way through all of the repeats:
The “Hot For Teacher” solo is based almost entirely on the Clapton/Cream “Sitting On Top of the World” ending solo licks…the phrasing and the overall composition of each part of this solo is breathtaking!
I also played through the solo from “Girl Gone Bad” which is one of my favorite of all of Ed’s solos at the very close of the episode. To me, the song is a strong candidate for being perhaps the best song the band ever did…right up there with “Push Comes To Shove” or “Hear About It Later”. To my mind, it is the closest the band ever came to Led Zeppelin…a masterpiece! And the solo showcases some of Edward’s old familiar licks played with swinging gusto and with a nice long legato phrase near the beginning of the solo…a clear example of the influence of Holdsworth before Ed goes to his more familiar five-note pattern with one Upstroke picked note at the 14th position (same as in the “Beat It” solo in the 12th position) and his raked Am arpeggio/A blues phrasing to wind it up. I love it! Here’s my transcription of the complete “Girl Gone Bad” solo:
Also, here is a video lesson in which I go over these five note patterns from “Beat It” and “Girl Gone Bad” which contains some tips on how to execute this pattern cleanly:
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So I have a question for Dweezil which may have been asked and answered at some point, but here goes:
My pals Greg Renoff and podcaster/classic rock/VH cover band guitarist Jeff Goebel and other friends of mine have been going down every possible rabbit hole for information on the source or sources from which Edward drew for his famous right hand tapping technique.
We have essentially all agreed that the most solid evidence on balance points toward Harvey Mandel being the person that Edward got his right hand tapping technique from. Reliable eyewitness accounts from George Lynch who attended a Mandel show at the Starwood with Edward where Mandel played his many advanced right hand tapping runs live and a local scenester who actually saw Terry Kilgore teach Ed the technique after he himself was taught the technique by Mandel. Neal Schon is also quoted as saying that Edward specifically told him that he learned the technique from Mandel by way of Terry Kilgore.
It is an almost foregone conclusion that despite Ed’s best attempts to claim that he came up with the idea on his own after seeing Page’s “Heartbreaker” solo open string legato triplets, he almost certainly actually learned the technique wholly from Terry Kilgore who was taught directly by Mandel and the very reliable account of Lynch having attended a Mandel show at the Starwood where Mandel performed many advanced right hand tapping runs which were all over his 1973 solo album ‘Shangrenade’ and which he he’d been playing since 1969.
Another very distinct possibility is that Edward was aware of right hand tapping from seeing and/or hearing Derringer band guitarist Danny Johnson doing advanced right hand tapping runs in Derringer…who also played a great hard rocking live version of “You Really Got Me” well prior to Van Halen’s breakthrough recording and who also played guitar in the band ‘Private Life’ that Edward produced in the late 80s.
My question and the question from my friends to Dweez is this…Did you ever discuss the origins of tapping with Ed as it related to Frank’s pioneering right hand tapping as we see it in this famous clip of “Black Napkins” from 1976 at around the 2:40 mark?
My dad was tapping on the neck with a pick to make what he called "Bagpipe Sounds" starting as far back as 1973. It was a more randomized hyper fast flutter sound within lines. It wasn't uniform like Eruption.
Thanks for that memory! It’s clear from that footage that 1973’s “bagpipe sounds” evolved into something more “uniform” by the time of that 1976 footage. I think I get what he was driving at with “bagpipe” if the tapped note was a very short one that quickly jumped to the next note in the way that notes in bagpipe music can.
It is really interesting that the whole right hand tapping technique was essentially “in the air” for some progressive rock guitarists and forward thinking guitar players in general. I reckon it is obvious that Edward popularized it because he ultimately made great popular music that reached the masses in a way that others didn’t, but the actual technique and the same basic runs were definitely being done by others just as well, especially from Hackett and Mandel.
Dang, Zappa was on the Mike Douglas show? Nice camera work, never knew Frank used so many upstrokes on downbeats. Thanks for posting that.
Hi DZ! Any estimate when the Line 6 Helix Van Halen presets will become available for us subscribers?
Amazing Pod cast tons of info super love the deep dive thanks Allen and Dweeze!
Thanks David! It was great fun…I’m glad you enjoyed it! Dweezil is great at editing and audio magic to such a degree that he made a simpleton like me sound passable!
Wow! This is awesome! A fantastic resource! Thanks again Allen for sharing all of your materials with us. Many practice hours ahead to look forward to!
Near the end of the episode, I also played one of my favorite variations of the repeating open string licks similar to those in “Eruption”, “Somebody Get Me a Doctor”, “I’m the One” (second solo), “5150” etc. in F# during the “Hot For Teacher” solo. Here is my complete transcription of that solo where you can see exactly how Eddie played that iteration of the lick where he mixed up his straight picking with his normal “single open E picked with the rest legato” patterns with added picked notes at various points in an off-the-cuff way which doesn’t follow his usual non-varying pattern all the way through all of the repeats:
The “Hot For Teacher” solo is based almost entirely on the Clapton/Cream “Sitting On Top of the World” ending solo licks…the phrasing and the overall composition of each part of this solo is breathtaking!
I also played through the solo from “Girl Gone Bad” which is one of my favorite of all of Ed’s solos at the very close of the episode. To me, the song is a strong candidate for being perhaps the best song the band ever did…right up there with “Push Comes To Shove” or “Hear About It Later”. To my mind, it is the closest the band ever came to Led Zeppelin…a masterpiece! And the solo showcases some of Edward’s old familiar licks played with swinging gusto and with a nice long legato phrase near the beginning of the solo…a clear example of the influence of Holdsworth before Ed goes to his more familiar five-note pattern with one Upstroke picked note at the 14th position (same as in the “Beat It” solo in the 12th position) and his raked Am arpeggio/A blues phrasing to wind it up. I love it! Here’s my transcription of the complete “Girl Gone Bad” solo:
Also, here is a video lesson in which I go over these five note patterns from “Beat It” and “Girl Gone Bad” which contains some tips on how to execute this pattern cleanly:
https://youtu.be/lIL27p_MAfA?si=2VHmj5yBHTIeCN5R
Girl Gone Bad is def a standout cut for me. He put the whole prog rock crowd on notice with that tune.